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Super Robots v Real Robots

SR v RRs   22 members have voted

  1. 1. Which one do you like more?

    • Super Awesome Super Robots
      12
    • Very Cool Real Robots
      11

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44 posts in this topic

Super Robots everyday. When you're invincible, you feel well.

I am pretty sure Kira (not SC Kira) was pretty invinsible the remainder of SEED Destiny after he got Strike Freedom

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Being awesome is though!

There have been plenty of awesome RRs! Nu Gundam, Sazabi, Eternal Freedom, Infinite Justice, Arbalest, Gundam X, Gundam Double X, Black Salena (though... it really needs to appear in places that aren't Prince of Darkness), Eagle Fighter and co. (even if Dancouga is a SR, the component bots aren't)... and most likely a bunch I missed due to knowing nothing of the shows they're in. Someone more familiar with, tell me if Layzner is also an awesome RR? (The Leopard is pretty damn cool too, but isn't quite enough to qualify for awesome IMO)

Edited by Alicia

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TOTALLY real robots... i even hate super robots!! soooo fake, they always stays in the mothership when i play SRW xD

super robots are a total mood killer for me, strange metalic gian creatures making appears power-ranger-themed-swords from nowhere, and shooting fire from the eyes, and by combining a school bus a cesna plane and a firetruck you can make a world shaking machine.. wtf!!

real robots are the oposite... super fast machines that requires totally pro pilots, where their skills are tested and reflexes are determinant. Using realistic thou sometimes futuristic weapons... And they may even exist some day in the not so far future!!

GO REAL ROBOT!!

SUPER ROBOTS BURN IN HELL!!

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While I mostly agree with that sentiment, that's being way too harsh. Gurren Lagann and GaoGaiGar are cool enough to not set off my "This is stupid" radar (the same goes for the other GGG robots and Ganmen, though I don't remember the other Ganmen doing anything all that ridiculous), Cybuster (and other Masoukishin) and Gunbuster(/Sizzler) don't feel ridiculous at all, and you'd best not be harshing on Dancougar there. Also, it's arguable that Aura Battlers and Evangelions are super robots, due to their origins. While they might feel fake, I... can't see how you'd make them not seem so in that case, without ruining the point of the series.

Also, Magic Knight Rayearth is great, though I can understand if it's not your thing.

Edited by Alicia

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I personally prefer super robots solely because they ARE stupid. In general, super robots function in universes where the primary rule of physics is "as long as it is awesome, it works". While real robots are fun and all, I start to get POed quite often because RR pilots seem to have magical bullet dodging abilities. In reality, no matter how good you are, a few stray bullets WILL hit you and you WILL be shot down eventually in a major firefight unless your robot is faster than bullets and lasers, an ability which is very rare.

In essence, I prefer super robots because I am incredibly anal. Whilst watching a program featuring real robots, I am constantly annoyed by the plot armor exhibited by the main cast, as well as the irritation I feel towards the fact that virtually every major character is running around in a one-of-a-kind prototype. With super robots, I can relax a bit more because there is nothing to be uptight about - I'm watching a universe with no preset rules beyond the aforementioned Law of Awesome.

Of course, this isn't to say that real robots cannot be fun too, just that there are so many things that end up bugging me in a universe that tries to be somewhat realistic... unless it happens to be a video game, in which case I can write it all off as game mechanics.

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hahaa yeah i was more like thinking n the "clasic" ones like mazinger getta raiden and all those that appears in SRW and are composed of a lot of vehicles xD

some super robots are cool, but they are not really super robot in my eye, they are more like "not-so-real robots".. for example the evas... soooo cool, it is very hard to put them together with mazinger and the other ridiculous ones... c'on.. they even try to give you the cientific explanation, inside their own scope, in fact evangelion is my favorite anime serie ever (but i love the xenogears videogame even more :P)

there are others witch i dont know what category are they in.. for example the ones in escafowne, they are pretty cool whatever they category is, or those u mention like Rayearth, its prettycool too... it may be magical, but it doesnt have a cilindric angry human face for god sake!

the other day i was playing SRW alpha gaiden (the reason how i acciently found these forums btw xD) and in a mission a car transforms itself into a super mega gigantic robot OMG that was soooo lame totally killed the ambientation... in fact, i toke a screenshot as Duo was thinking exactly as I am

ridiculogo1.png

then the "cientific" explanation for that was that it changed energy into matter using einstein theory... ok, it is true... with the little detail that u need like the energy of an H bomb to create a single subatomic particle!!!

regards

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I personally prefer super robots solely because they ARE stupid. In general, super robots function in universes where the primary rule of physics is "as long as it is awesome, it works". While real robots are fun and all, I start to get POed quite often because RR pilots seem to have magical bullet dodging abilities. In reality, no matter how good you are, a few stray bullets WILL hit you and you WILL be shot down eventually in a major firefight unless your robot is faster than bullets and lasers, an ability which is very rare.

Well, Newtypes are Mecha Jedi, Co-ordinators are supergeniuses (apparently), and Dancouga pilots (yes, I know Dancouga's a SR, but the component bots are RR) don't seem superhuman in their dodging.

I have nothing for the Naturals of SEED (the ones who DON'T suck at least) or Macross' Valkyrie Pilots, but is superhuman dodging really more ridiculous than Getter Robo (see above)? I don't remember superhuman dodging from Armslave or Aestivalis pilots (except for Boson Jumps) either, but may be misremembering.

In essence, I prefer super robots because I am incredibly anal. Whilst watching a program featuring real robots, I am constantly annoyed by the plot armor exhibited by the main cast, as well as the irritation I feel towards the fact that virtually every major character is running around in a one-of-a-kind prototype. With super robots, I can relax a bit more because there is nothing to be uptight about - I'm watching a universe with no preset rules beyond the aforementioned Law of Awesome.

Watch Nadesico. Not only is it great, it COMPLETELY lacks the whole "one of a kind prototypes for all!" thing you mentioned. (Plot Armour, to some extent, is pretty common in mecha series, if I'm reading you right. What exactly do you count as "plot armour"?)

hahaa yeah i was more like thinking n the "clasic" ones like mazinger getta raiden and all those that appears in SRW and are composed of a lot of vehicles xD

some super robots are cool, but they are not really super robot in my eye, they are more like "not-so-real robots".. for example the evas... soooo cool, it is very hard to put them together with mazinger and the other ridiculous ones... c'on.. they even try to give you the cientific explanation, inside their own scope, in fact evangelion is my favorite anime serie ever (but i love the xenogears videogame even more :P)

there are others witch i dont know what category are they in.. for example the ones in escafowne, they are pretty cool whatever they category is, or those u mention like Rayearth, its prettycool too... it may be magical, but it doesnt have a cilindric angry human face for god sake!

Well, yeah. If you're just counting the more ridiculous ones, of course they'll seem ridiculous. Still, GGG and GL are both sortof like that, and cool anyway. (Gurren Lagann would probably be less watchable if it wasn't so ridiculous. Refuge in Audacity.)

the other day i was playing SRW alpha gaiden (the reason how i acciently found these forums btw xD) and in a mission a car transforms itself into a super mega gigantic robot OMG that was soooo lame totally killed the ambientation... in fact, i toke a screenshot as Duo was thinking exactly as I am

I can totally understand the "...what?" reaction things like that cause... except in Dunbine, where's there's a reason for mecha drastically changing in size all of a sudden.

Also... Alpha Gaiden is translated now? I'll have to find it.

Edited by Alicia

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Your lasers do not affect our armor, and we will catch you eventually.

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... Why are we arguing science about shows about giant robots? In real life, they're about as stupid as possible from a military stand point, no matter what. Compared to a tank, their massive surface area would make that giant targets, so realism gets thrown out the window before we even start. Yes, real robots are solely defined by their technological attributes that make them seem more realistic, but the original Gundam is nothing but a crock of beans. Even if you could find some way to make it move as fast it can in the series and find some miracle armor to do the same protection wise, it doesn't hold a torch to the common fighter. Chemical rockets, used in atmosphere and with the amounts it uses, would burn through fuel so fast it'd get only a few jumps, yet the show never shows it running out of fuel at any time. By comparison, turbofan fighters make more sense, and aren't nearly as retardly weak or slow as they are in most animes. As technology has gotten better, so have fighters, to the point that they're so fast that you'd be hard pressed to hit them at full speed. Instead of giving Gundam that miracle armor, why not just make a fighter with beam weapons and better armor since it would also have better mobility at the expense of being able to enter trenches or caves that it can bomb the hell out of with indirect fire ordinance?

Supers, on the other hand, say screw that and don't even pretend most of the time. They're there to stimulate people with their awesome abilities, not tell a story about some angst-y brat that happens to pilot a super powered robot that he's vastly underqualified to even touch while actual soldiers run around playing support while he cries that he's having to kill some dude that is trying to shove a cannon up his rectum. Trying to explain such a thing is bananas!

Actually finding a mecha anime with a realistic military approach to weapons is extremely rare. If you hold out for total realism in a mecha, you'd find yourself watch a two hour documentary on automotive construction or hobby enthusiasts, because it would take a truly idiotic military to field something like that beyond, possibly, battle armor. If you even make something as large as a tank, it's going to take fire like a real bastard. So in that respect, you're screwed. Real robots only give the appearance of realism, while supers are quite aware of what they are, fun for anybody that's so inclined. Don't lampoon any series for "plot armor" as it exists at all times in anime or any media for that matter. No matter what, a series can't change where it's going once it's finished, no matter how much you want it to.

So there you have it. If you prefer having some attempts at realism, as always, go for reals and some supers like Gunbuster. Just know they're not so real you can expect to see them walking around any time soon, as the idea is astoundingly stupid for real battles as the same technology can typically be placed onto far superior craft. If you want to just watch a mecha anime, watch any of them and you'll form personal preferences, so asking if you like real robots or super robots is a question of taste, not competition. At least, if you expect all things to be realistic, at which point we'd need to throw out pretty much every video game for having health meters.

The lesson is don't judge anything by it's realism unless it's real life, in which case don't place too much stock in it anyway as it may surprise you at any point in time. Liking shades of realism is your personal choice, we're not here to kick any genre around, we're here to have fun with giant robots. If you dish a series for not being realistic, then the people that don't care about that will, for the most part, not care. Those that do will try to explain that you shouldn't be dissing a series just because you don't like it, like I'm doing now, and I'm not even a really big super fan.

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Plot armor, in my opinion, is generally armor exceeding what the unit in question is shown to have under normal circumstances. In SR anime, being hot blooded automatically doubles your armor, so I can write off surviving ridiculous attacks provided you have enough courage/love/emotion of the day. In RR anime, main pilots' units frequently seem to be able to survive whatever hits the plot requires them to survive with no real excuse as to why, seeing as how the exact same attack can end up being crippling should the plot require the pilot to be defeated.

I don't really have a problem with superhuman dodging, provided that the pilots don't end up taking on entire armies on their own... which many RR's eventually end up doing. Newtypes, I admit, have a fairly good justification; they can read their opponent's attacks before they make them. Coordinators, on the other hand, are just silly in their dodging; no matter how much of a genius you are, you cannot judge the firing patterns of everyone on a battlefield and intentionally evade them without some form of psychic ability, and if you aren't intentionally dodging attacks, you will eventually get shot down by some shmuck who gets lucky. Plus, there's the fact that a lot of the time in Seed, the opponents are coordinators as well, meaning that no one but Kira really has an advantage over their opponents in terms of being a genius.

I suppose my problem with many real robots is that they try to create a somewhat realistic setting, but seldom actually make the universe sufficiently realistic for the setting to work for me. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but shows that are as consistent in their realism as I like seldom produce robots that particularly impress me. Hence, its a catch 22 situation, either it strikes me as being unrealistic in a realistic setting and I don't like it, or I enjoy the setting and the show but the robots don't seem special enough to really make me like them.

With super robot shows, they generally make it pretty clear early on that you should not expect realism from the show, hence I don't place any unreasonable expectations upon them. This, in addition to the awe-inspiring abilities possessed by many super robots, leads me to generally enjoy them more than real robots.

Edit: I was typing this up when you posted Kruz, and your comment about realism in video games is precisely why I enjoy them. Since they have health bars and game mechanics, I expect no realism from them. Hence, I can enjoy real robots just fine in video games, since I never expect realism from them in the first place. I don't have any problem with people enjoying real robots, I just have difficulty doing so myself because I am so damn anal about everything.

Edited by Lumley

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naaa, real robots are called that because they follow a near future posibility of ours.

u say, something that big gets shot easily... well, in the case of a tank, sure, but we are talking of machines with high degree of mobility.. not as fast as fighter jets, but much more mobile and agile than tanks... something like helicopters in mobility... try to shot a helicopter or a fighter with a tank's main gun... its imposible... no wonder they can dodge those shots, the only real way to get a shot on things as mobile as fighters nowdays are guided misiles.. and for those u have all sort of countermeasures... with a machinegun u may also hit and helicopter, but u will do nothing to any military helipcopter that respects itself with a machinegun... simply to heavily armored... the one thing that is too far in the future to make real robors real, is the mobility factor... and the engieniring to build such a masive machine.

in the other hand... it will never be posible to make a golden bow appear out of nowhere to have a giant robot use it to fire a similary houdini-appeared arrow of lighting and/or fire at a enemy...

the thing it... when watching real robots.. u can fanatasy with being watching a posible semi-far future, while with super robots, u KNOW that wont happen even in 5000 years

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Comparing to a helicopter was a really, really bad example. A tanks main gun isn't meant to hit aircraft, it's meant to hit tanks and buildings. For air, ground, or space foes, there is the missile with it's advanced guidance system. There is a missile for almost any situation, tanks are for infantry support and they're also a lot cheaper to make and supply. To say we won't have a specific method for taking out a mecha almost instantly because of their speed when we can shoot down missiles and planes flying faster then the speed of sound is like saying we're still fighting Hitler.

And no, they would still be in trouble. Helicopters have the advantage of being in the air. Superior tactics using terrain or numbers would almost surely mean defeat for a mecha, mostly because a mecha made in the present day would be slow (not to mention what kind of power plant you'd need for it) and not really good for navigating terrains like sand. And again, even if they are as fast as a helicopter, infantry with missiles, aircraft with missiles, and boats half way around the world with missiles could take it out. At best, you'd be doing UAV pilots a favor and actually giving them a live target to shoot at more often, as helicopters are taken out in Iraq by rocket propelled grenades.

"Ah!" you say, "but what about missile jamming?" is the obvious solution to this. That doesn't clear the problem of wire guidance (or the hard to hit infantry carrying them) or rockets, and you have several different types of missile guidance systems, most of which are not guaranteed. There are also armor piercing shells delivered from large bore machine guns that can take out conventional tank armor, however such things almost don't exist in first world nations. Specialized, military only tank armor would deny that ability, however that doesn't change much when present day fighters are capable of killing pretty much anything in a open battle, or at least until their munitions run out. If you try to grab on to that and say that melee attacks would be better, then you REALLY need to take a look a automechanics. Punching a tank will slightly damage your own armor (more so if it's shaped armor), and more then a little likely your internal system at the same time while possibly doing the same to the tank. Keep doing this and you'd eventually be down to a stump of an arm while doing possibly negligible damage to a foe. Giving your mecha a weapon would require specific balancing and raises even more issues.

No mecha will EVER be equipped with a nuclear reactor. The safety issues involved would get you in more trouble then you know to get out of, and in doing so limits the duration of their activity to power a larger machine then a tank. Giving your mecha a rifle would cause serious balancing issues and both problems beg the question why not use something more conventional? If somebody wanted something with the mobility of a helicopter, they would get a helicopter, or better yet, a fighter or bomber that far exceeds a helicopters capabilities for combat damage. The helicopter is slowly becoming outdated as a military flying weapons platform. It's ability to hover in areas is no longer unique, and fighters can carry around the same amount of munitions or more into a combat area even faster. They may continue to exist in major military countries as cheap alternatives and troop transports, but comparing a mecha to a helicopter was a folly argument, especially since the single fastest helicopter is a mere 400.8 kpm. While faster then a tank, it's hardly worth it even it it hits that speed. Compared to advancements such as invisible soldiers and the ability to attack from the other side of the world, a mech is forever outclassed as a method of battle.

And no, not even in space will a mecha have a nuclear reactor. If any radioactive material hit a populated planets atmosphere, it would still kill over a even worse area. Mecha would not be a good method for fighting in space, either, as that would require the exact same propulsion as mountable on a fighter or other craft, and the arms and legs would just be stupid at that point. I won't discount mecha as a method of construction, however.

Edit: I'm not trying to put you down. Continuing this discussion is the exact opposite of what I wanted to do, as that would mean my point before was missed somewhat.

Edited by Master Kruz

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I'm not trying to put you down. Continuing this discussion is the exact opposite of what I wanted to do, as that would mean my point before was missed somewhat.

i know, me neither, just telling my point of view and reading your, all very friendly :)

about the misile thing, there are more than jammers... in fact i didnt recall those until now, i was more like thinking in ancient technologies like chaffs and flares, also, the very modern and still in development laser antimisile defense, in witch a laser overheats the misile making it fuel to blow up before geting to the target, that DO exist today, just in a very early stages of development

about the energy manner, i never mentioned a nuclear reactor, in fact i also think it is absolutely impractical... if real robots are to exist some day in the future, they would have some kind of energy cell still to be invented, for limb mobility via servos, and use regular jet fuel in small jet engines to get short burst of speed to quick manuvers when combating

well, that is at least, my vision on the matter

but in the deep of my mind i know that there is very small chance (but a chance exist!!) for this to happen, as the most probably way to develop the military is via small unmanned drones, like the predator out there

regards

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Theoretically, modestly sized mecha could be effective in urban environments where there is a great deal of cover to take advantage of. It is quite difficult for a tank to shoot around the edge of a building, but it is a simple task for a robot to reach around a corner with a weapon and fire with the majority of its body concealed. Of course, the threat of infantry units carrying anti-tank weapons is still high, but this does present a situation in which a humanoid mech may well be superior to a more conventional vehicle.

Edited by Lumley

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totally true.... a realistic combat robot couldn't be more than 2 stories high... maaaaybe 3 if very slim.. AT MOST

evangelion sized are to be never seen... but then, evas had humanoid biologic bodies so.. xD

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I'm not trying to put you down. Continuing this discussion is the exact opposite of what I wanted to do, as that would mean my point before was missed somewhat.

i know, me neither, just telling my point of view and reading your, all very friendly :)

about the misile thing, there are more than jammers... in fact i didnt recall those until now, i was more like thinking in ancient technologies like chaffs and flares, also, the very modern and still in development laser antimisile defense, in witch a laser overheats the misile making it fuel to blow up before geting to the target, that DO exist today, just in a very early stages of development

about the energy manner, i never mentioned a nuclear reactor, in fact i also think it is absolutely impractical... if real robots are to exist some day in the future, they would have some kind of energy cell still to be invented, for limb mobility via servos, and use regular jet fuel in small jet engines to get short burst of speed to quick manuvers when combating

well, that is at least, my vision on the matter

but in the deep of my mind i know that there is very small chance (but a chance exist!!) for this to happen, as the most probably way to develop the military is via small unmanned drones, like the predator out there

regards

As long as we're being friendly here.

And yeah, the laser AMS isn't the only way to shoot down missiles. The ordinary CIWS is there for the sole purpose of shooting down missiles, and anti-missile missiles are also becoming common.

And citing chaff and flares is citing something that has been worked against since their invention. While they might work, some countries use laser guidance from any number of places, and being unable to quickly put distance between yourself in your primary method of defense is asking for trouble. And yes, I was worried that you might try to use nuclear power here, so I mentioned that. Personally, I'd much rather think mecha would come about through artificial muscles as seen in my series Assault Frame Valius, making them entirely solar powered with only small amounts of electricity used to constrict segments of muscle into movement. And while I still maintain that, even with this, that they would not be a suitable method of battle, they would make for easy to maintain construction.

But this is all nerd talk. Unless somebody here gets into something big, of course.

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