Suguri-SP

NJU General Thread

114 posts in this topic

Post here for any questions, comments, or general help needed in the New Jagged Universe campaign setting! Anything like unit recommendation or pilot build advising goes here!

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I'm thinking of a Defense-using close-combat type of character for my second pilot. It's difficult to find a mech Rank 5- for him to train with on standing missions. Any suggestions? I know what I'm getting him for Rank 6+ units though.

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It's not really close combat *but* the Full Armor 7th Gundam is good for defense-oriented pilots, moreso if you invest in the Sword Shield technique.

Also the Spirits Rider thing I've seen used a couple of times, to varying effectiveness.

Edited by Suguri-SP

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You could ask one of us to get you a Liberator, so far its pretty solid for a rank 5

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It's going to end up Rank 6 when I get off my arse and update it, but I used Dordray for my R5- tanking needs. Alternatively, there's always Matey Defender, which also doubles as every other unit you could possibly need.

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Tanking isn't really my bag, but there's always the Mechasaurus Zuu or the Dordray for just being a bag of health.

The MassGust and the Liberator are generally good units, though.

EDIT: And the Matey-D.

Edited by Kirby M.D.

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As a rule of thumb, I would suggest ignoring advice from people with dismal and utterly ineffective records for the most part. In the end, you'll need to come up with something on your own to meet your own specific needs.

Also, let me make this point clear.

the MassGust is, quite franky, a fairly terrible unit with only the advantage of having a fairly solid attack that it cant maintain and an inability to tank any form of serious firepower (20k+ damage) without going down like a chump. Look at the records, draw your own conclusions.

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I have no clue of anyone's records but I'll take suggestions and buy the one I like best. But if training missions are going to be changed to rank 6-, I already have a unit in mind.

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They probably will remain rank 5- to allow newer people to play on the same level, or older people to train up new pilots.

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Hmm. Tanking/Melee units...

So far, the best I've found is Proto-Getter-3, but that's a Getter, and works best with another two pilots... other than the Liberator, which is pretty much exactly what you want, if you can get it.

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Liberators aren't bad, no. Particularly after an evo point or two they can become really good. However I second the Dordray bit as it's really a good all around tank (DR -30% vs Ranged attacks out of the box, can get fairly high (6000-10000) HP with a bit of tweaking) which also has good, powerful attacks. Check the Virtual-On Thread in general, really.

Edited by Suguri-SP

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As a rule of thumb, I would suggest ignoring advice from people with dismal and utterly ineffective records for the most part. In the end, you'll need to come up with something on your own to meet your own specific needs.

Also, let me make this point clear.

the MassGust is, quite franky, a fairly terrible unit with only the advantage of having a fairly solid attack that it cant maintain and an inability to tank any form of serious firepower (20k+ damage) without going down like a chump. Look at the records, draw your own conclusions.

Old....the only thing able to get into the 20k range of damage for a r5 are motherships.and lumping people who recommended the MassGust, including Imban, as "people with dismal and utterly ineffective records" is not a really nice way of getting into a conversation.There is no terrible unit per se, its a mix of tactics, support units, build and item deploys.Everyone was laughing at the Peacekeeper, but mine can generally hold its own with 12-15K damage.

Guncastor....for a r5 match, a MassGust with Chobham and Generator will work. If ,lets say someone on you team has Re/Re, replace the Generator with a Power Booster or whatever sensor you got.For the pilot, get either Guard or Brave (or both) ASAP, then just shove in some Infight+1 chips.For the seishin, get perseverance first then iron wall.Good mix of survivability and power. IF you just want plain taking, go for mechasaurus....but its damage is really low.

Other people:whats a good evoable R8 gren/chev/unaligned mothership with excellent (S) and (BS)?and you recommendation on a melee/tanking r8 gren/chev/unaligned unit.

Edited by Largo

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Well, actually Largo, I was able to break 37k with a (at the time) level 4 pilot.

Also ships huh? I can list off good ships but uh, no evoable ships. There might be a couple at this level but I think they suck. In the meantime I would recommend the Aprogene, as it has very good damage for what it is and is only rank 7, so it can be further upgraded. (Up to 21% worth, so anywhere from 43 individual upgrades or 33 with a single full upgrade chip.)

Edited by Suguri-SP

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I meant just out of deploy. Not with a mecha innate version of Potential. :) btw..will that stack with Potential?

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It's a Unit Inherent. Yes. Barring very rare circumstances, typically everything will stack. The only things that don't are stuff like Leadership Auras.

Also I have a Rank 8 Unit with 14k base damage. Does that count?

Edited by Suguri-SP

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DEMOLITION TIME! lets do this 1 at a time!

Old....the only thing able to get into the 20k range of damage for a r5 are motherships.

Except all those times me, Regris, Imban, Mecha and god knows who else did 20k+ damage with r5s. Try again.

and lumping people who recommended the MassGust, including Imban, as "people with dismal and utterly ineffective records" is not a really nice way of getting into a conversation.

Imban recommended a massgust? really? LETS TAKE A LOOK AT HIS POST AGAIN!

It's going to end up Rank 6 when I get off my arse and update it, but I used Dordray for my R5- tanking needs. Alternatively, there's always Matey Defender, which also doubles as every other unit you could possibly need.

Nope, no massgust here, 0/2. Also, lets see who's recommended the massgust:

1. Kirby

2. You.

...I need not say more. In anycase, iif you read the contests of my post (a foreign concept I know, but bear with me here), my calling of people as ineffectual has nothing to do with their recommendations, and more recommendations from them should be examined closely and perhaps with a grain of salt. If anyone wishes to prove how good their setup is, I invite them to do so in the field of battle, which is the only place it matters.

Victory needs no explanation. Defeat allows none.

There is no terrible unit per se, its a mix of tactics, support units, build and item deploys.

Yes, yes there is. The Leo Hi-Mobility has no saving graces that cannot be done better by damn near any other unit it's rank or lower. In anycase, A good setup can make a terrible unit viable, but at the same time, you could have used a better unit to begin with.

*points to sky*

Grandma said this. A good cook can make bad ingredients into good food. A bad cook can turn good ingredients into good food. A good cook would still rather have good ingredients.

Everyone was laughing at the Peacekeeper, but mine can generally hold its own with 12-15K damage.

15k is bare minimum for "useful" damage vs most tanks unless you have some sort of pierce up your sleeve, so yeah, Im still laughing at it. Being "adequate" is not the same as being "good"

Guncastor....for a r5 match, a MassGust with Chobham and Generator will work. If ,lets say someone on you team has Re/Re, replace the Generator with a Power Booster or whatever sensor you got.

You're basically forcing an allied unit to constantly resupply you in battle when you could be doing other things. The massgusts' firepower is not sufficiently awe inspiring to demand a 2nd unit slot to keep it constantly working when TWO units firing at the same time would do MORE DAMAGE.\

For the pilot, get either Guard or Brave (or both) ASAP, then just shove in some Infight+1 chips.For the seishin, get perseverance first then iron wall.Good mix of survivability and power. IF you just want plain taking, go for mechasaurus....but its damage is really low.

I will admit this is the 1 part of your post that makes sense.

Other people:whats a good evoable R8 gren/chev/unaligned mothership with excellent (S) and (BS)?and you recommendation on a melee/tanking r8 gren/chev/unaligned unit.

1. The Gundam dust ships,

2. Alt Eisen, Sword Strike Gundam,

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Get a Magnebeast DR-7!

Also, Old brings up some good points, even if he's a jerk about it. I'd pay some attention to the things he says, but I've not seen *too* much bad advice fly around here yet.

Edited by Suguri-SP

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For the most part, I'm just going to skip OCD's comments, since I don't have much to add, except to ask how the hell you're getting 15k damage from a rank 5, unless you have a pure offence pilot. However:

There is no terrible unit per se, its a mix of tactics, support units, build and item deploys.

Yes, yes there is. The Leo Hi-Mobility has no saving graces that cannot be done better by damn near any other unit it's rank or lower. In anycase, A good setup can make a terrible unit viable, but at the same time, you could have used a better unit to begin with.

Seriously.

While this is hardly the greatest of comparison, lets compare Zaku I and Zaku II F. (You shouldn't use either unless you're desperate to evolve them and are bringing something worthwhile as well, mind, because they're pretty much a waste of a slot.)

They have the exact same weapons, but the Zaku II has more HP, EN and better agi. While the difference isn't much, you can't look at both and say that, ignoring evolutions, the Zaku II F isn't just plain better. Likewise Z'Gok Commander Type to Z'Gok, and likely a bunch of others I haven't found yet.

Victory needs no explanation. Defeat allows none.

I actually disagree here, but my example has little to do with NJU.

Novel D-Sserd will destroy most low rank Gundams, simply due to their Anti-Beam Coating. It's nothing to do with the D-Sserd being strong, except against the Gundam's main weapons (beams)

(And yes, I'm aware that RX-78 has a Bazooka, and Mk II has Flying Armour Attack.)

It's unlkely that the entire enemy force will be strong against you, however, in NJU, so the effect of a bad match-up is minimised.

There is some degree of skill involved in predicting your enemy so that you can counter it, but it's certainly not trivial to accomplish. I find it better to just bring something workable in most situations, rather than trying to counter the exact units my opponent is going to bring.

Everyone was laughing at the Peacekeeper, but mine can generally hold its own with 12-15K damage.

15k is bare minimum for "useful" damage vs most tanks unless you have some sort of pierce up your sleeve, so yeah, Im still laughing at it. Being "adequate" is not the same as being "good"

And yet, I've never broken about 7k with a rank 5. Are you spamming Hot Blood, or is there something I'm missing? It might be that I'm not bringing especially damaging units, but I haven't heard anyone call R-Matey or Spirits Rider weak.

Guncastor....for a r5 match, a MassGust with Chobham and Generator will work. If ,lets say someone on you team has Re/Re, replace the Generator with a Power Booster or whatever sensor you got.

You're basically forcing an allied unit to constantly resupply you in battle when you could be doing other things. The massgusts' firepower is not sufficiently awe inspiring to demand a 2nd unit slot to keep it constantly working when TWO units firing at the same time would do MORE DAMAGE.\

Definitely. The only unit I can think of that's worth constantly resupplying, for its rank, is a Vic Viper (which isn't Rank 5, and isn't what you're looking for). Dendoh would count too, if you could (Rank 9, unavailable in NJU, poster-child for running out of EN).

Other people:whats a good evoable R8 gren/chev/unaligned mothership with excellent (S) and (BS)?and you recommendation on a melee/tanking r8 gren/chev/unaligned unit.

1. The Gundam dust ships,

2. Alt Eisen, Sword Strike Gundam,

I never think of Sword Strike as a good tanker, but I guess it can be. Alt Eisen definitely can.

In summary: Having a decent unit is fairly important, Alt Eisen and Sword Strike are decent.

... and if you have to bring a weak unit, try to find a way to make it useful.

Edited by Alicia

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With all due respect, Alicia, the things you're doing with your units aren't necessarily 'wrong', they're just odd (Sniper Sensor on SPIRITS RIDER, for example). I personally find it hard to *not* break 10k damage with whatever I'm using but that's because I synergize my items with my mechs and my pilots. For example:

[table=Pilot Classes]

Class SP Spirit Commands Techniques Skills [td=10%]Wrecking Ball[/td][td=5%]112[/td][td=25%]
  • Hot Blood Lv. 1
  • Direct Attack
  • Empty
  • Empty
  • Empty
  • Empty

[/td][td=20%]

  • Empty
  • Empty
  • Empty

[/td][td=25%]

  • Attacker
  • Empty
  • Empty
  • Empty
  • Empty
  • Empty

[/td]

[td=10%]PP: 100/1,600 Lv. 4[/td][/table]

Wrecking Ball

SP: 112

Spirit Commands:

  • Hot Blood Lv. 1 (20)
    • All Weapon Damage x1.5 for your next attack phase taken this turn.

    [*]Direct Attack (25)

    • For your next attack phase taken this turn, your target cannot use secondary defenses (such as Double Image, Stealth, or Barriers). Target also cannot be Support Defended by allies. The cancellation of Support Defense and other secondary defenses only applies to your attacks.

Skills & Abilities:

- Dodge Cost -0%

- Countercut Cost: 5 AP

- Countershoot Cost: 5 AP

- Critical

Class: Active

During the special phase you may pay 10 AP to gain Weapon Damage +15% and Accuracy +15% for the first attack phase made this turn. Any effect that would reduce this cost below 0 AP only reduces it to 0 instead.

- Abilities

Class: Passive (Main)

- Melee Lv. 3: [F]-type Weapon Damage +35%, Countercut Cost -2

- Ranged Lv. 3: [+]-type Weapon Damage +35%, Countercut Cost -2

- Attacker

Class: Passive (Main), Active

- Gain Weapon Damage +25%. Charge (4)

- Will Gauge

Class: Active (Main)

1 Will

* Thrust: Costs 1 Will. Your first attack phase this turn gains Target's Countercut Cost +50%.

3 Will

* Defense Pierce: Costs 3 Will. The last hit of your next attack phase gains Barrier Pierce and Armor Pierce.

* Barrage: Costs 3 Will. One (X) or (F) type weapon on your unit has its limit increased by 25% this turn, rounded up.

5 Will

* Finishing Attack: Cost 5 Will. Your next attack phase gains Weapon Damage +100% and Target's Dodge Cost +25%.

RVR-14 Fei-Yen the Knight

Statistics:

HP: 3400, EN: 180, Agi: 270

IS: 3, Move: G, Size: M, Rank: 5

Weapons:

[+] Hand Beam (BF:4)- 1050 damage, Armor Break, 20 rounds [+10%]

[F] Pinky Rush (BMF:3)- 1650 damage/4 EN [+0%]

[+] Heartful Attack (B)- 3300 damage, 5 EN/attack [+10%]

[+] Sword Heart Beam (B)- 3300 damage, Mobility Break, 10 EN/shot [+25%]

[+] Vivid Pink Extra (BSF:3)- 2400 damage/10 EN [+10%]

[+] Emotional Attack (BS)- 8700 damage, 35 EN/attack [+20%]

Inherent Abilities:

1) Virtuaroid

2) Countercut: Pinky Rush

3) Countershoot: Hand Beam, Heartful Attack

4) Virtual Armor (S Armor)

5) Emotional Mode: Activates when HP is 50% or below. Agi -20, Weapon Damage +50%, and Accuracy +10%. May be activated at any time, but doing so reduces this unit's HP to 25% of maximum.

6) Dodge Cost -25%

Items

- Power Booster x2

- Spare Battery

- Propellant Tank

In the above deploy, I am gearing myself to go on the offensive. I can rest assured in doing this knowing that my allies have my back if they need to. In case something bad happens, I have a Prop Tank to fall back on.

I then turn that into...

Attack Phase:

Weapon Used: Emotional Attack

Target: Shinobi Strike, EF534-2 Panther BT, GAT-X105 Strike Gundam, MBR-XTF-51-C Matey Cutlass

Damage Dealt: 33278 -> 8320 to All

Resources Spent: 35 EN

Status Effect: -

Damage Modifiers: +60 Pilot, +30 Item, +50 Unit, +15 Critical, Hot Blood! [+155% x1.5]

Accuracy Modifiers: -10 Terrain, +25 Weapon, +10 Unit, +15 Critical [+40%]

And even on my less offensive pilots, between skill chips and proper item loadouts I easily reach at least +120% damage, so long as that's what I'm going for.

Edited by Suguri-SP

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I actually disagree here, but my example has little to do with NJU.

In a sense, what I mean is "It doesnt matter how theoretically good or bad you say things are, proving it in actual battle is the real test."

Results are the final arbiter of effectiveness.

It might be that I'm not bringing especially damaging units

It's that. Offense is offense. To mount up a powerful offense, you need a decent number to begin with. For example, Stark Gan Dolla, VF-1s, Some personal troopers, Virtuaroids, etc., all pack an attack with good base damage. From there, it's simply a matter of amping it enough to be lethal to anything while trying not to die.

I never think of Sword Strike as a good tanker, but I guess it can be. Alt Eisen definitely can.

Phase shift and a shield goes a long way. You've seen it first hand from my Strike being used against you.

In summary: Having a decent unit is fairly important, Alt Eisen and Sword Strike are decent.

... and if you have to bring a weak unit, try to find a way to make it useful.

The first thing you should ask when looking at a unit is "What do I intend to do exactly? What purpose will this serve me in battle?"

From there, its merely playing to it's strengths and covering it's weaknesses. Some units are inherently better at certain tasks than others. It's not so much weakness as "suitability for tasks". Let's face it, the vast majority of units will never be used except by diehard aficionados of that unit.

The second is "How good is it at that job"? What you consider acceptible is up to you. People have different tolerances for their doctrines. However as a good rule of thumb, you should examine the metagame enough to have a ballpark figure for averages you expect to face, and then work around having at least a minimum to deal with that.

Third: "How well does it work in concert with other things I have available"? It doesnt matter how good a unit is if it also obliterates your chances of winning. A powerful unit that unfortunately causes you and your allies to go berserk for example, may not be suitable. Plan a strategy with your allies on who covers what role and with what units.

The final question "What resources do I have available to make this unit work"? This would be pilots, items, allies to work with. A suboptimal build is expected most of the time, as 'perfect' sets of everything (primarily trained pilots) are difficult to have ready for everything. Below a certain threshold however, the opportunity cost of playing a unit when you could do something better is simply too high, and it should not be fielded. Whether this is because the unit is that bad vis-a-vis likely opponents, or the resources to make a good unit work (for example, lacking a pilot who can use it effectively) simply isnt available does not matter. You should do something else until you have the resources to make it work at least to a reasonable capacity.

Theres a good deal more to it than just that really, but that sums up the basics.

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In a sense, what I mean is "It doesnt matter how theoretically good or bad you say things are, proving it in actual battle is the real test."

Results are the final arbiter of effectiveness.

Fair enough there. My point was that sometimes something will happen you didn't prepare for, and it's usually not the unit being bad, it's just that someone brought the counter, which doesn't contradict yours at all.

Just bear in mind that units have counters, and counter other units. It's just the nature of SC/Mecha combat.

It might be that I'm not bringing especially damaging units

It's that. Offense is offense. To mount up a powerful offense, you need a decent number to begin with. For example, Stark Gan Dolla, VF-1s, Some personal troopers, Virtuaroids, etc., all pack an attack with good base damage. From there, it's simply a matter of amping it enough to be lethal to anything while trying not to die.

Having seen Regris' example, I agree. While my pilots aren't as offensive at Regris' example pilot, the unit having a 7800 damage base attack is the big deal. Raw damage-wise, my best Rank 5 is... Prototype Psycho Gundam, which, now I look, isn't that bad damage-wise. (It has a 6000 damage attack) Everything else does less. (Ga Zoum: 2000 (2000 x3 if I can combo), Vertigo: 450x6, Zaku III Custom: 3000, Oppressor: 3600, L-Matey: 4000, Spirits Rider: 4200)

Still, I don't exactly hunt down the best damage numbers. Maybe I should start looking for more damage dealers.

I never think of Sword Strike as a good tanker, but I guess it can be. Alt Eisen definitely can.

Phase shift and a shield goes a long way. You've seen it first hand from my Strike being used against you.

Oh, I understand that completely.

The first thing you should ask when looking at a unit is "What do I intend to do exactly? What purpose will this serve me in battle?"

From there, its merely playing to it's strengths and covering it's weaknesses. Some units are inherently better at certain tasks than others. It's not so much weakness as "suitability for tasks". Let's face it, the vast majority of units will never be used except by diehard aficionados of that unit.

The second is "How good is it at that job"? What you consider acceptible is up to you. People have different tolerances for their doctrines. However as a good rule of thumb, you should examine the metagame enough to have a ballpark figure for averages you expect to face, and then work around having at least a minimum to deal with that.

Third: "How well does it work in concert with other things I have available"? It doesnt matter how good a unit is if it also obliterates your chances of winning. A powerful unit that unfortunately causes you and your allies to go berserk for example, may not be suitable. Plan a strategy with your allies on who covers what role and with what units.

The final question "What resources do I have available to make this unit work"? This would be pilots, items, allies to work with. A suboptimal build is expected most of the time, as 'perfect' sets of everything (primarily trained pilots) are difficult to have ready for everything. Below a certain threshold however, the opportunity cost of playing a unit when you could do something better is simply too high, and it should not be fielded. Whether this is because the unit is that bad vis-a-vis likely opponents, or the resources to make a good unit work (for example, lacking a pilot who can use it effectively) simply isnt available does not matter. You should do something else until you have the resources to make it work at least to a reasonable capacity.

Theres a good deal more to it than just that really, but that sums up the basics.

That is probably the best advice I've read. I'd add my own advice, but it'd more or less be just saying that again, but with different words.

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I'd just like to add that my impression upon re-entering the system is that specialists outperform generalists in just about all situations - for instance, an offensive specialist packing all sorts of nasty crap and a defensive specialist packing Substitute probably beats two generalists any day of the week.

But I'll refrain from saying anything conclusive until I've actually mixed it up a bit.

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