Umbaglo

SimChamber v4 Early Design Concepts

302 posts in this topic

The moderating team has been working to try and fix the imbalances we have in the SC system lately, but there's a few things we'd like to do that will require more then just teaks to v3. As a result, we've done some design concepts, and want to share them with the players to see what people think about them.

Right now we have 3 concepts we'd like to unveil.

Concept 1: Simplified Combat

We keep seeing folks mention that they love the ideas of the SimChamber; acquiring robots, developing pilots, making devs. But the actual conducting of battle, on the other hand, is not as amusing and is overall kind of a drag. Our game system accounts for a number of factors that can quickly add up and be overwhelming, taking a lot of time to do each turn. Some people manage this better then others, but it's still a high bar for a new person to get over. To help with this, there is currently a proposed stat concept for v4 that is intended to greatly simplify the base requirements to play, while still allowing for depth if the player desires it.

In this proposal, there are 4 "stats" and 4 "modifiers", they are:

Stats: HP, DP, Weapon Damage, Weapon Accuracy.

Modifiers: Defense, Dodge, [Range/Melee] Power, [Range/Melee] Skill

All other stats on a unit remain the same, and an example will be below. Each modifier will directly increase the appropriate stat; if you have +60% Defense, you will increase your HP by 60%. The intent of this is to eliminate the majority of the calculations, if the player doesn't want to make use of them; no REQUIRED part of the calculation will provide DR as we know it now, so a player would simply deduct the incoming damage from their HP or DP as necessary, even if they are a tank or dodger.

The important thing, though, is that these bonuses will be calculated at the START of the battle, and will generally not change during the fight. We do have means to allow a unit to change HP during battle, but I am currently wanting to shy away from allowing that. What may happen is that we will allow them, but they will always be on optionally activated effects if we do add them. Things that give +damage after the battle begins will likely be a lot more common then effects that give +defense/dodge, as well.

The optional defensive systems can add in more advanced calculations if desired, but they will be just that: OPTIONAL. Right now, the current plan for the optional defenses are as follows:

- Spells will remain as they are, but will likely have some effects modified as part of this system.

- Shields will work as the current proposal to allow the pilot to block and attack in the same turn.

- Smoke Dischargers will be changed to be a "dodge shield" so to speak. This category will also include things like Chaff dispensers, like most aircraft have. The "Dodge Shield" will allow the pilot to Evade and attack in the same turn.

- Barriers and all fixed reduction armours will remain as they are, and stack together to reduce damage before it hits the unit's HP.

- Double Image and other similar evasive defenses will become a "dodge barrier", and work the same way except for reducing DP damage.

- Terrain will work in a manner similar to Kait's current proposal in the Tracker.

If I forgot anything, let me know.

The following two statblocks are examples. They do not use anything that may resemble balanced, and in fact are nothing more then direct transfers of current effects into these numbers. As a result, do not take these blocks to be anything more examples of the way the numbers will look; everything else is still under discussion in different concepts.

RX-78-2 Gundam

Statistics:

HP: 3000, DP: 5000, EN: 150

IS: 3, Move: G, Size: M, Rank: 6

Weapons:

[+] 60mm Vulcan- 400 damage, 2000 Accuracy, 20 rounds

[F] Melee (M)- 500 damage, 500 Accuracy

[+] 100mm Machinegun- 950 damage, 1800 Accuracy, 20 rounds

[F] Beam Saber (BM)- 1200 damage, 800 Accuracy

[+] Beam Rifle (B)- 1300 damage, 1500 Accuracy, 10 rounds

[+] Shotgun (S)- 1800 damage, 1000 Accuracy, 8 rounds

[F] Beam Javelin (BM)- 2000 damage, 1000 Accuracy, 5 EN/attack

[F] Hyper Hammer (MS)- 3000 damage, 1200 Accuracy, 10 EN/attack

[H] Gundam Hammer (M)- 3600 damage, 1500 Accuracy, 15 EN/attack

[+] Super Napalm (S)- 4000 damage, 1800 Accuracy, 3 rounds

[+] 380mm Hyper Bazooka (F:2)- 3400 damage, 2000 Accuracy, 12 rounds

Inherent Abilities:

1) Mobile Suit

2) Shield

3) Countercut: Beam Saber

4) Countershoot: 60mm Vulcan, 100mm Machinegun, Beam Rifle, Shotgun

5) Separate (FF-X7 Core Fighter)

Purchasing Cost: 300 Credits

Mazinger-Z

Statistics:

HP: 7000, DP: 3000, EN: 180

IS: 3, Move: G, Size: M, Rank: 8

Weapons:

[+] Absolute Zero Beam- 600 damage, Paralyze, 1500 Accuracy, 10 EN/attack

[F] Mazinger Punch (M)- 1200 damage, 600 Accuracy

[+] Missile Punch (PG)- 1200 damage, 1800 Accuracy, 99 rounds

[+] Finger Missiles (PSF:5)- 300 damage, 600 Accuracy, 50 rounds

[+] Drill Missile (GSF:10)- 150 damage, 800 Accuracy, Drill, 50 rounds

[H] Boomerang Punch (P)- 1600 damage, 1000 Accuracy, Mobility Break, 8 EN/attack

[H] Rocket Punch (P)- 1800 damage, 1000 Accuracy

[H] Iron Cutter (P)- 2400 damage, 1500 Accuracy, 5 EN/attack

[+] Rust Hurricane (SV:5)- 700 damage/5 EN, 2500 Accuracy, Armor Break

[+] Breast Fire (S)- 4800 damage, 2500 Accuracy, 25 EN/attack

[+] Photon Beam (SV:6)- 900 damage/5 EN, 2000 Accuracy

[H] Giant Swing Rocket Punch (SX:2)- 2600 damage, 2000 Accuracy, Armor Pierce, 8 rounds

[H] Enhanced Rocket Punch- 5400 damage, 3000 Accuracy, Armor Pierce, Barrier Pierce, 2 rounds

MAP Attacks:

[+] Breast Fire (I:4)- 4000 damage, 2000 Accuracy, 25 EN/attack

Inherent Abilities:

1) Mazinger

2) Countercut: Req: Martial Arts Mastery

3) Countershoot: Photon Beam

4) Jammer

5) Mazin Power

6) Separate (Jet Pilder)

7) Photon Beam: If the resource cost of this attack is paid 6 or more times, it gains Barrier Pierce.

Purchasing Cost: 450 Credits


Concept 2: Simplified Pilots

While the current setup of "classless" pilot design has allowed for a lot of freedom, this freedom is actually both very daunting to players, and also very illusionary. There are a lot of traps that make for terrible builds even if want them to be viable, and there's a lot of things that everyone just does anyway in order to make the basic build for the type of character they're eventually going to make. So, if there's really not much ACTUAL choice, why shouldn't we just streamline the process?

Right now, the design concept is that there are 8 classes that embody certain design concepts, and each class has two different paths they can take that accentuate different factors. The classes and their paths are as follows:

- Hero (Anime main pilot, focuses on damage). Paths: SR Pilot (Secondary focus on defense), RR Pilot (Secondary focus on dodging)

- Defender (Tank). Paths: Tank (Personal protection), Bodyguard (Team protection)

- Skirmisher (Dodge "tank"). Paths: Dogfighter (Personal protection), Distractor (Team support by drawing fire)

- Gunfighter (Ranged DPS). Paths: Sniper (single-target, high accuracy), Artillery (Spread fire, high damage)

- Brawler (Melee DPS). Paths: Duelist (single-target, high accuracy), Martial Artist (High damage, some spreading)

- Commander (Team bonuses). Paths: Tactical Commander (Focusing on the Tactical Command skill), Inspiring Commander (Focusing on Auras)

- Supporter (Backline support). Paths: Engineer (Re/Re focus), Singer (Buff focus)

- Sub-Pilot (Backseat driver). Paths: Spirit Specialist (Focus on spirit commands), Co-Pilot (Focus on improving main pilot)

In general, advancement for these classes would work much like Mecha's current proposal in the Tracker for the changed leveling up system. Each class would also have their own skills and abilities that are automatically granted when you take that class, and there may be limitations on other skills to tie them to specific classes, but that part has not yet been discussed in great detail.

Some examples of class skills would be:

- Since Hero is meant to be representing the main character of an anime, they get an inherent Unit Specialization as part of their class, for a specific unit and any of it's frame, transformations, or evolutions. This can be changed after character creation in a manner to be determined later.

- Skirmishers are designed to be "dodge tanks" by making enemy forces want to focus at them, since you can't dodge while support defending. To achieve this, Skirmishers may choose to apply a "Distraction" debuff on any of their attacks. If the attack hits, the enemy will take a penalty to their attack if they do not target the Skirmisher on their next turn.

In general, the class skills will be active things or things that modify things that you do, instead of generic modifiers. They are, for the most part, still under discussion.


Concept 3: Series Lists

Right now the Hangar is pretty much a large encyclopedia of units from all over the mecha world. But BECAUSE the Hangar is so large, it is VERY difficult to ensure that our balance standards are really met. Imban and myself do work to put out any fires that pop up, but if something wider then a single series needs to be done, we pretty much just need to put it aside since it's far too much work. To help with this matter, I've been thinking for a while of maintaining a type of rotating "series list".

The way this would work is that every so often at a defined time, the moderation team would determine a list of series, and would balance the units in these series against each other to ensure that the balance is tighter. Whatever the main game mode is, fights for it will ONLY be allowed to use units from the current series list. Using NJU as an example, Missions will only allow players to use units in the series list, but Arenas and Events could use anything that's in the Hangar. The only thing is that anything that's NOT in the series list is NOT guaranteed to be balanced. Hangar mods will fix any grievous errors, but for the most part they will not care about balance issues for anything that's not in the series list. So players wanting to use anything else will have to take care about what they choose to use.

While the basic idea is that we will have a rotating list of balanced series, it's also been suggested that we can also "rebalance" units depending on the series list, as well. For example, if a series list were to have Shin vs Neo Getter as one of the chosen series, we could have Shin Getter restatted to be the Shin vs. Neo version, but still having it's stats matching the tier it's meant to be at. Players who have the existing Shin Getter would still have that exact same version; the Shin vs. Neo one would be a different copy altogether. And when the series list changes and we have a different Shin Getter, players who had the Shin vs. Neo variant will continue to have it, and can use it in other battles.

Right now, there isn't really an idea about how MANY series will be in each list, but it will likely be variable depending on the number of units in each series. However, regardless of that, there will be some staples that will always be included. Right now, we're thinking that each series list should have, as a minimum, at least one Mazinger, one Getter, one Gundam, one random 80s series, one random oldies SR series, and one recent series (within the past two years). Beyond that, we'd probably be looking at ~20 series in a list much like a typical SRW, however again that list will change based on the number of units in each series; a list that chooses shows with only one robot for all of these required minimums might find itself with 25 or 30 series in it after everything's said and done.


The reason we are revealing these concepts to you all now is that we want to make sure that players like the direction we are planning before we do any serious work developing them further. If there are any questions, comments, suggestions, or concerns, please post them here! Thank you.

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The moderating team has been working to try and fix the imbalances we have in the SC system lately, but there's a few things we'd like to do that will require more then just teaks to v3. As a result, we've done some design concepts, and want to share them with the players to see what people think about them.

Right now we have 3 concepts we'd like to unveil.

Concept 1: Simplified Combat

We keep seeing folks mention that they love the ideas of the SimChamber; acquiring robots, developing pilots, making devs. But the actual conducting of battle, on the other hand, is not as amusing and is overall kind of a drag. Our game system accounts for a number of factors that can quickly add up and be overwhelming, taking a lot of time to do each turn. Some people manage this better then others, but it's still a high bar for a new person to get over. To help with this, there is currently a proposed stat concept for v4 that is intended to greatly simplify the base requirements to play, while still allowing for depth if the player desires it.

In this proposal, there are 4 "stats" and 4 "modifiers", they are:

Stats: HP, DP, Weapon Damage, Weapon Accuracy.

Modifiers: Defense, Dodge, [Range/Melee] Power, [Range/Melee] Skill

Er... So, weapon accuracy is a precalcualted DP cost? That's.. awkward. Anyway, while I can see DR being folded into HP for stuff like Armor and only using DR for shields, and special abiliites, (which still simplifies the defense phase enormously while retaining some complexity..) [Wait, forgot shields were becoming block+attack.], hmm.

It seems to oversimplify it but I can't think of an in between right now.

All other stats on a unit remain the same, and an example will be below. Each modifier will directly increase the appropriate stat; if you have +60% Defense, you will increase your HP by 60%. The intent of this is to eliminate the majority of the calculations, if the player doesn't want to make use of them; no REQUIRED part of the calculation will provide DR as we know it now, so a player would simply deduct the incoming damage from their HP or DP as necessary, even if they are a tank or dodger.

The important thing, though, is that these bonuses will be calculated at the START of the battle, and will generally not change during the fight. We do have means to allow a unit to change HP during battle, but I am currently wanting to shy away from allowing that. What may happen is that we will allow them, but they will always be on optionally activated effects if we do add them. Things that give +damage after the battle begins will likely be a lot more common then effects that give +defense/dodge, as well.

The optional defensive systems can add in more advanced calculations if desired, but they will be just that: OPTIONAL. Right now, the current plan for the optional defenses are as follows:

- Spells will remain as they are, but will likely have some effects modified as part of this system.

- Shields will work as the current proposal to allow the pilot to block and attack in the same turn.

- Smoke Dischargers will be changed to be a "dodge shield" so to speak. This category will also include things like Chaff dispensers, like most aircraft have. The "Dodge Shield" will allow the pilot to Evade and attack in the same turn.

- Barriers and all fixed reduction armours will remain as they are, and stack together to reduce damage before it hits the unit's HP.

- Double Image and other similar evasive defenses will become a "dodge barrier", and work the same way except for reducing DP damage.

- Terrain will work in a manner similar to Kait's current proposal in the Tracker.

Interjecting: Some of those move costs are quite high, and with a MUSTPACK, can effectively screw things over. Otherwise, it makes sense..

If I forgot anything, let me know.

The following two statblocks are examples. They do not use anything that may resemble balanced, and in fact are nothing more then direct transfers of current effects into these numbers. As a result, do not take these blocks to be anything more examples of the way the numbers will look; everything else is still under discussion in different concepts.

RX-78-2 Gundam

Statistics:

HP: 3000, DP: 5000, EN: 150

IS: 3, Move: G, Size: M, Rank: 6

Weapons:

[+] 60mm Vulcan- 400 damage, 2000 Accuracy, 20 rounds

[F] Melee (M)- 500 damage, 500 Accuracy

[+] 100mm Machinegun- 950 damage, 1800 Accuracy, 20 rounds

[F] Beam Saber (BM)- 1200 damage, 800 Accuracy

[+] Beam Rifle (B)- 1300 damage, 1500 Accuracy, 10 rounds

[+] Shotgun (S)- 1800 damage, 1000 Accuracy, 8 rounds

[F] Beam Javelin (BM)- 2000 damage, 1000 Accuracy, 5 EN/attack

[F] Hyper Hammer (MS)- 3000 damage, 1200 Accuracy, 10 EN/attack

[H] Gundam Hammer (M)- 3600 damage, 1500 Accuracy, 15 EN/attack

[+] Super Napalm (S)- 4000 damage, 1800 Accuracy, 3 rounds

[+] 380mm Hyper Bazooka (F:2)- 3400 damage, 2000 Accuracy, 12 rounds

Inherent Abilities:

1) Mobile Suit

2) Shield

3) Countercut: Beam Saber

4) Countershoot: 60mm Vulcan, 100mm Machinegun, Beam Rifle, Shotgun

5) Separate (FF-X7 Core Fighter)

Purchasing Cost: 300 Credits

Mazinger-Z

Statistics:

HP: 7000, DP: 3000, EN: 180

IS: 3, Move: G, Size: M, Rank: 8

Weapons:

[+] Absolute Zero Beam- 600 damage, Paralyze, 1500 Accuracy, 10 EN/attack

[F] Mazinger Punch (M)- 1200 damage, 600 Accuracy

[+] Missile Punch (PG)- 1200 damage, 1800 Accuracy, 99 rounds

[+] Finger Missiles (PSF:5)- 300 damage, 600 Accuracy, 50 rounds

[+] Drill Missile (GSF:10)- 150 damage, 800 Accuracy, Drill, 50 rounds

[H] Boomerang Punch (P)- 1600 damage, 1000 Accuracy, Mobility Break, 8 EN/attack

[H] Rocket Punch (P)- 1800 damage, 1000 Accuracy

[H] Iron Cutter (P)- 2400 damage, 1500 Accuracy, 5 EN/attack

[+] Rust Hurricane (SV:5)- 700 damage/5 EN, 2500 Accuracy, Armor Break

[+] Breast Fire (S)- 4800 damage, 2500 Accuracy, 25 EN/attack

[+] Photon Beam (SV:6)- 900 damage/5 EN, 2000 Accuracy

[H] Giant Swing Rocket Punch (SX:2)- 2600 damage, 2000 Accuracy, Armor Pierce, 8 rounds

[H] Enhanced Rocket Punch- 5400 damage, 3000 Accuracy, Armor Pierce, Barrier Pierce, 2 rounds

MAP Attacks:

[+] Breast Fire (I:4)- 4000 damage, 2000 Accuracy, 25 EN/attack

Inherent Abilities:

1) Mazinger

2) Countercut: Req: Martial Arts Mastery

3) Countershoot: Photon Beam

4) Jammer

5) Mazin Power

6) Separate (Jet Pilder)

7) Photon Beam: If the resource cost of this attack is paid 6 or more times, it gains Barrier Pierce.

Purchasing Cost: 450 Credits


Concept 2: Simplified Pilots

While the current setup of "classless" pilot design has allowed for a lot of freedom, this freedom is actually both very daunting to players, and also very illusionary. There are a lot of traps that make for terrible builds even if want them to be viable, and there's a lot of things that everyone just does anyway in order to make the basic build for the type of character they're eventually going to make. So, if there's really not much ACTUAL choice, why shouldn't we just streamline the process?

Right now, the design concept is that there are 8 classes that embody certain design concepts, and each class has two different paths they can take that accentuate different factors. The classes and their paths are as follows:

- Hero (Anime main pilot, focuses on damage). Paths: SR Pilot (Secondary focus on defense), RR Pilot (Secondary focus on dodging)

- Defender (Tank). Paths: Tank (Personal protection), Bodyguard (Team protection)

- Skirmisher (Dodge "tank"). Paths: Dogfighter (Personal protection), Distractor (Team support by drawing fire)

- Gunfighter (Ranged DPS). Paths: Sniper (single-target, high accuracy), Artillery (Spread fire, high damage)

- Brawler (Melee DPS). Paths: Duelist (single-target, high accuracy), Martial Artist (High damage, some spreading)

- Commander (Team bonuses). Paths: Tactical Commander (Focusing on the Tactical Command skill), Inspiring Commander (Focusing on Auras)

- Supporter (Backline support). Paths: Engineer (Re/Re focus), Singer (Buff focus)

- Sub-Pilot (Backseat driver). Paths: Spirit Specialist (Focus on spirit commands), Co-Pilot (Focus on improving main pilot)

In general, advancement for these classes would work much like Mecha's current proposal in the Tracker for the changed leveling up system. Each class would also have their own skills and abilities that are automatically granted when you take that class, and there may be limitations on other skills to tie them to specific classes, but that part has not yet been discussed in great detail.

So uhm.. Special skills like A-Class Jumper, Newtype, Spiritual Power, Ki Power? Do they get their own class, or is it an optional thing in the class build? Also, would we be looking at reduced skill slots since some are now built in?

Some examples of class skills would be:

- Since Hero is meant to be representing the main character of an anime, they get an inherent Unit Specialization as part of their class, for a specific unit and any of it's frame, transformations, or evolutions. This can be changed after character creation in a manner to be determined later.

- Skirmishers are designed to be "dodge tanks" by making enemy forces want to focus at them, since you can't dodge while support defending. To achieve this, Skirmishers may choose to apply a "Distraction" debuff on any of their attacks. If the attack hits, the enemy will take a penalty to their attack if they do not target the Skirmisher on their next turn.

In general, the class skills will be active things or things that modify things that you do, instead of generic modifiers. They are, for the most part, still under discussion.


Concept 3: Series Lists

Right now the Hangar is pretty much a large encyclopedia of units from all over the mecha world. But BECAUSE the Hangar is so large, it is VERY difficult to ensure that our balance standards are really met. Imban and myself do work to put out any fires that pop up, but if something wider then a single series needs to be done, we pretty much just need to put it aside since it's far too much work. To help with this matter, I've been thinking for a while of maintaining a type of rotating "series list".

The way this would work is that every so often at a defined time, the moderation team would determine a list of series, and would balance the units in these series against each other to ensure that the balance is tighter. Whatever the main game mode is, fights for it will ONLY be allowed to use units from the current series list. Using NJU as an example, Missions will only allow players to use units in the series list, but Arenas and Events could use anything that's in the Hangar. The only thing is that anything that's NOT in the series list is NOT guaranteed to be balanced. Hangar mods will fix any grievous errors, but for the most part they will not care about balance issues for anything that's not in the series list. So players wanting to use anything else will have to take care about what they choose to use.

While the basic idea is that we will have a rotating list of balanced series, it's also been suggested that we can also "rebalance" units depending on the series list, as well. For example, if a series list were to have Shin vs Neo Getter as one of the chosen series, we could have Shin Getter restatted to be the Shin vs. Neo version, but still having it's stats matching the tier it's meant to be at. Players who have the existing Shin Getter would still have that exact same version; the Shin vs. Neo one would be a different copy altogether. And when the series list changes and we have a different Shin Getter, players who had the Shin vs. Neo variant will continue to have it, and can use it in other battles.

Right now, there isn't really an idea about how MANY series will be in each list, but it will likely be variable depending on the number of units in each series. However, regardless of that, there will be some staples that will always be included. Right now, we're thinking that each series list should have, as a minimum, at least one Mazinger, one Getter, one Gundam, one random 80s series, one random oldies SR series, and one recent series (within the past two years). Beyond that, we'd probably be looking at ~20 series in a list much like a typical SRW, however again that list will change based on the number of units in each series; a list that chooses shows with only one robot for all of these required minimums might find itself with 25 or 30 series in it after everything's said and done.


The reason we are revealing these concepts to you all now is that we want to make sure that players like the direction we are planning before we do any serious work developing them further. If there are any questions, comments, suggestions, or concerns, please post them here! Thank you.

Hn~ I like the idea, but I would like to be able to use out-of-series units in main events, because it may get expensive keeping up. Regardless, I can't say this is bad.

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So, uh, if this is a plan for a full overhaul. I'd like to toss my own two-sense out. A big problem with the current system of SC is the fact that lower power attacks really don't matter at all unless the high power ones have some unlock condition (activating a system, getting EP, ect.) which generally leads to the issue of people just spamming their most effective attack which partially contributes to the Damage vs. Reduction arms race (Team A can throw out massive amounts of damage on turn 1 so Team B needs to be hyper tanky to compensate, ect.) and in team fights (I.E. NJU) the EN and Ammo cost of these weapons kinda stops functioning as a balancing factor when you have units resupplying you each turn.

So some way of either penalizing the use of super-moves early on (a-la SDSC's Hissatsu tag.) which would be the simplest way of handling it but would potentially be awkward and wouldn't be able to cover everything quite as well as it does in its source material (where you only had 4~5 attacks which were all stated in tiers that roughly have the same stats as other attacks in their tiers just with sliding scale damage/accuracy and lower stats if it had an extra effect). Alternatively we could give particularly strong attacks a one-time charge-up, which may complicate things slightly, but it would be more flexible for handling different cases. Since, even with the revised stats now? There is not reason to not spam, say, Gundam's Hyper Bazooka (especially if you have someone reloading you) immediately since it unquestionably has the best damage and possibly accuracy (assuming (F) and (X) still modify accuracy) of its weapons.

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Er... So, weapon accuracy is a precalcualted DP cost? That's.. awkward.

Please go into more detail as to why it's awkward. This setup will actually allow DP damage to scale as well as HP damage, as well as make DP itself scale like HP. Considering people are complaining about the lack of scaling with DP and dodging, making the two defenses exactly the same is a good move.

It seems to oversimplify it but I can't think of an in between right now.

But... WHY is it a bad thing to simplify it? Or how is it OVER-simplifying it? What real benefit is there in making people have three whole multiplication phases they HAVE to have every turn and cannot avoid? Instead of making people have to reduce the weapon by their pilot, unit, and special modifiers every turn, we can abstract that all away by just making those defenses literally give you HP, because that's what they're doing now.

I mean, what's the difference between having 5000 HP and reducing a 10000 damage attack to 500 damage, or having 100000 HP and just eating the 10000 damage attack? You take the same amount of effective damage either way.

Interjecting: Some of those move costs are quite high, and with a MUSTPACK, can effectively screw things over. Otherwise, it makes sense..

That system is still up for discussion, I should mention. And people are very much NOT discussing it, so...

Also, we cannot be balancing entire game systems around individual units. It would be more likely that something may happen to the Mudpack during the restatting.

So uhm.. Special skills like A-Class Jumper, Newtype, Spiritual Power, Ki Power? Do they get their own class, or is it an optional thing in the class build? Also, would we be looking at reduced skill slots since some are now built in?

As was stated, the new class designs are CONCEPTS. Each one embodies a generic build; such as your typical "I deal damage and dodge reasonably well", "I tank really well", "I'm just meant to sit in the back seat". The defining skills are remaining to provide choice for further customization.

As to the number of skill slots, that is yet to be determined.

So some way of either penalizing the use of super-moves early on (a-la SDSC's Hissatsu tag.) which would be the simplest way of handling it but would potentially be awkward and wouldn't be able to cover everything quite as well as it does in its source material

There is actually something along these lines planned, but that design is still in earlier planning.

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The important thing, though, is that these bonuses will be calculated at the START of the battle, and will generally not change during the fight. We do have means to allow a unit to change HP during battle, but I am currently wanting to shy away from allowing that. What may happen is that we will allow them, but they will always be on optionally activated effects if we do add them. Things that give +damage after the battle begins will likely be a lot more common then effects that give +defense/dodge, as well.

While it's currently not usually completely viable, I've seen a few pilot concepts with a lot of charge skills, with the idea that they're awful in turn 1 (unless charged with AP or the Charge Spirit Command) but awesome from turn 4 on (or once manually charged). I don't want to see pilot concepts become unusable (though, it's not usually all that viable without Charge Spirit Command or similar, but that's more a flaw with the current system than anything to view as desirable.)

The optional defensive systems can add in more advanced calculations if desired, but they will be just that: OPTIONAL. Right now, the current plan for the optional defenses are as follows:

- Spells will remain as they are, but will likely have some effects modified as part of this system.

- Shields will work as the current proposal to allow the pilot to block and attack in the same turn.

- Smoke Dischargers will be changed to be a "dodge shield" so to speak. This category will also include things like Chaff dispensers, like most aircraft have. The "Dodge Shield" will allow the pilot to Evade and attack in the same turn.

- Barriers and all fixed reduction armours will remain as they are, and stack together to reduce damage before it hits the unit's HP.

- Double Image and other similar evasive defenses will become a "dodge barrier", and work the same way except for reducing DP damage.

- Terrain will work in a manner similar to Kait's current proposal in the Tracker.

If I forgot anything, let me know.

See Kait's tracker thread for my comments on the terrain bit. Otherwise, this seems fine.

The following two statblocks are examples. They do not use anything that may resemble balanced, and in fact are nothing more then direct transfers of current effects into these numbers. As a result, do not take these blocks to be anything more examples of the way the numbers will look; everything else is still under discussion in different concepts.

One thing that bothers me... what happens to Metal Zaku and Golden GM? Just boosting the HP seems... somehow like cheapening them, somehow.

I was going to say that they were defined by high defence and low HP, but their HP isn't that low, just nothing impressive.

- Since Hero is meant to be representing the main character of an anime, they get an inherent Unit Specialization as part of their class, for a specific unit and any of it's frame, transformations, or evolutions. This can be changed after character creation in a manner to be determined later.

- Skirmishers are designed to be "dodge tanks" by making enemy forces want to focus at them, since you can't dodge while support defending. To achieve this, Skirmishers may choose to apply a "Distraction" debuff on any of their attacks. If the attack hits, the enemy will take a penalty to their attack if they do not target the Skirmisher on their next turn.

In general, the class skills will be active things or things that modify things that you do, instead of generic modifiers. They are, for the most part, still under discussion.

I have a nagging feeling that certain class concepts are going to be missed, but other than the Critical Build (which is... just an artifact of the current system), or the Attack Again pilot (multiple attack phases, usually gets combined with Free Criticals due to the skill requirements of both), I can't think of any.

I'm assuming that Newtypes, Psychodrivers, Magicians etc will be covered by the other classes, but if not, please do not throw such out. Also, please note that not all Gundam Heroes are Newtypes (Hey Shiro, Kou and Garrod!), nor are all Newtypes Gundam Heroes. The same thing could apply to any series and its special skill, though. I don't even think I'd want Supreme Survivor tied to the Hero class.

I very much approve of the Skirmisher, though. It both makes Dodge Pilots worthwhile in team battles, and seems a very interesting and thematic pilot concept. The ace pilot who doesn't do much damage but can barely be hit, even when up in your face, distracting the enemy from the big hitters.

I'd also like to see a "typeless" DPS, who doesn't match the Gunfighter in ranged DPS or the Brawler in melee DPS but can do good damage in either role.

The way this would work is that every so often at a defined time, the moderation team would determine a list of series, and would balance the units in these series against each other to ensure that the balance is tighter. Whatever the main game mode is, fights for it will ONLY be allowed to use units from the current series list. Using NJU as an example, Missions will only allow players to use units in the series list, but Arenas and Events could use anything that's in the Hangar. The only thing is that anything that's NOT in the series list is NOT guaranteed to be balanced. Hangar mods will fix any grievous errors, but for the most part they will not care about balance issues for anything that's not in the series list. So players wanting to use anything else will have to take care about what they choose to use.

I foresee a lot of having to buy new units because your old units aren't in the list.. it might be tough to keep up with events that way.

While the basic idea is that we will have a rotating list of balanced series, it's also been suggested that we can also "rebalance" units depending on the series list, as well. For example, if a series list were to have Shin vs Neo Getter as one of the chosen series, we could have Shin Getter restatted to be the Shin vs. Neo version, but still having it's stats matching the tier it's meant to be at. Players who have the existing Shin Getter would still have that exact same version; the Shin vs. Neo one would be a different copy altogether. And when the series list changes and we have a different Shin Getter, players who had the Shin vs. Neo variant will continue to have it, and can use it in other battles.

For the last part, as long as no series get discarded, it seems fine, though it's a little odd to have multiple versions of Shin Getter, but that's just what happens with differing versions of units.

I'd disagree with changes that throw out series, though. Except stuff like Rockman, I guess...

Right now, there isn't really an idea about how MANY series will be in each list, but it will likely be variable depending on the number of units in each series. However, regardless of that, there will be some staples that will always be included. Right now, we're thinking that each series list should have, as a minimum, at least one Mazinger, one Getter, one Gundam, one random 80s series, one random oldies SR series, and one recent series (within the past two years). Beyond that, we'd probably be looking at ~20 series in a list much like a typical SRW, however again that list will change based on the number of units in each series; a list that chooses shows with only one robot for all of these required minimums might find itself with 25 or 30 series in it after everything's said and done.

So, this reminds me of my looking at the series list for SRWs to determine if I'm interested. Usually, but sometimes, they don't have any series I'm interested in.

Also:

About Yuu's comments, I completely agree, but I can't find a good solution without ripping off SDSC's Hissatsu system.

To some extent, making the weaker attacks more efficient works, but after a certain point, you just don't care.

Edited by Alicia

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I have a nagging feeling that certain class concepts are going to be missed, but other than the Critical Build (which is... just an artifact of the current system), or the Attack Again pilot (multiple attack phases, usually gets combined with Free Criticals due to the skill requirements of both), I can't think of any.

You'll still be able to do a Skill/Critical focused pilot, it's just that it'll be a secondary thing to doing what your main class does (those in particular would probably be something you make off of Hero, Gunfighter or Brawler).

I'm assuming that Newtypes, Psychodrivers, Magicians etc will be covered by the other classes, but if not, please do not throw such out. Also, please note that not all Gundam Heroes are Newtypes (Hey Shiro, Kou and Garrod!), nor are all Newtypes Gundam Heroes. The same thing could apply to any series and its special skill, though. I don't even think I'd want Supreme Survivor tied to the Hero class.

They won't be covered by classes, but by skills. So you're a Newtype Gunfighter or Ki Powered Brawler, or a Magic using Skirmisher or whatnot. Obviously some classes will be more suited to this than others, but they'll be represented.

I'd also like to see a "typeless" DPS, who doesn't match the Gunfighter in ranged DPS or the Brawler in melee DPS but can do good damage in either role.

The intent is for Hero to be that.

I foresee a lot of having to buy new units because your old units aren't in the list.. it might be tough to keep up with events that way.

To an extent maybe, but after a while you'll start seeing repeats to where you have units.

For the last part, as long as no series get discarded, it seems fine, though it's a little odd to have multiple versions of Shin Getter, but that's just what happens with differing versions of units.

I'd disagree with changes that throw out series, though. Except stuff like Rockman, I guess...

Nothing is getting thrown out, but unlike what we did with the move from v2 to v3, we wouldn't be porting the majority of the hangar over before the start. Doing that was a serious drain on everyone working on it, and lead to things like series balance being out of whack and having to redo things later. So stuff would be absent temporarily, but not removed entirely.

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They won't be covered by classes, but by skills. So you're a Newtype Gunfighter or Ki Powered Brawler, or a Magic using Skirmisher or whatnot. Obviously some classes will be more suited to this than others, but they'll be represented.

As long as the ability is available, I'm good with it.

I'd also like to see a "typeless" DPS, who doesn't match the Gunfighter in ranged DPS or the Brawler in melee DPS but can do good damage in either role.

The intent is for Hero to be that.

But that's specialised in one unit, isn't it? In a way, that's more limited than the Gunfighter/Brawler.

Nothing is getting thrown out, but unlike what we did with the move from v2 to v3, we wouldn't be porting the majority of the hangar over before the start. Doing that was a serious drain on everyone working on it, and lead to things like series balance being out of whack and having to redo things later. So stuff would be absent temporarily, but not removed entirely.

So, much like in NJU? That works, and does at least mean that, early on, the limitations on series available will allow for covering most events without spending too much money on new units.

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Why do you insist on talking about events when they were clearly stated to be exempt from the limitation?

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So, uh, if this is a plan for a full overhaul. I'd like to toss my own two-sense out. A big problem with the current system of SC is the fact that lower power attacks really don't matter at all unless the high power ones have some unlock condition (activating a system, getting EP, ect.) which generally leads to the issue of people just spamming their most effective attack which partially contributes to the Damage vs. Reduction arms race (Team A can throw out massive amounts of damage on turn 1 so Team B needs to be hyper tanky to compensate, ect.) and in team fights (I.E. NJU) the EN and Ammo cost of these weapons kinda stops functioning as a balancing factor when you have units resupplying you each turn.

So some way of either penalizing the use of super-moves early on (a-la SDSC's Hissatsu tag.) which would be the simplest way of handling it but would potentially be awkward and wouldn't be able to cover everything quite as well as it does in its source material (where you only had 4~5 attacks which were all stated in tiers that roughly have the same stats as other attacks in their tiers just with sliding scale damage/accuracy and lower stats if it had an extra effect). Alternatively we could give particularly strong attacks a one-time charge-up, which may complicate things slightly, but it would be more flexible for handling different cases. Since, even with the revised stats now? There is not reason to not spam, say, Gundam's Hyper Bazooka (especially if you have someone reloading you) immediately since it unquestionably has the best damage and possibly accuracy (assuming (F) and (X) still modify accuracy) of its weapons.

Yuu has a very good point that requires discussion; no amount of system simplifying will fix finisher spam without going in and either making it impossible (a Charge system that you can't buy out of, having to go through weapon damage tiers sequentially), inefficient (making them much more expensive, so that even with a fully set up Resupply unit, you get maybe 3 shots, tops; the SDSC's Hissatsu tag), or other options nicer (giving weaker attacks status effects like SRW NEO or just making some weaker moves have far better Accuracy than the Hissatsu of choice).

On the actual system; thank God HP and DP are given equal mechanical footing. It sounds like the tactical complexity is going to come from terrain, spells and spell-likes (Will Commands and whatever the new skills do), which is kind of neat. The archetypes remind me of SCv2; as long as they're not too narrow (like Child of Eva/Masoukishin Herald) or generally unworkable (Enhanced Human), I'm cool with that. Just make sure that the differences in Hero/Gunfighter/Brawler doesn't just break down to "better with [H]/[+]/[F]". If on top of that, if you still get the six slots of now (or five, you give up a Defining for the archetype), that would be really nice for customization's sake. As long as there's a nice variety of units in the series releases, and they come relatively quickly (when's the next NJU one, again?), I'm cool.

I'd have to see what the skills look like and what kinds of special abilities you get, but as of now, I'm pretty happy with this system.

Patches: I think Mecha means that the Hero is good at [H] attacks and really good in one unit.

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The aim with the archetypes is to generally be "What you do in combat" rather than "What you're piloting". The exceptions are Subpilot (where you're in a backseat), and the working idea of Hero. The original idea of Hero was actually a jack of all trades offense pilot, but turned into the whole "I pilot one unit" idea. It might be possible to do both. It's still kind of something in progress.

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Er... So, weapon accuracy is a precalcualted DP cost? That's.. awkward.

Please go into more detail as to why it's awkward. This setup will actually allow DP damage to scale as well as HP damage, as well as make DP itself scale like HP. Considering people are complaining about the lack of scaling with DP and dodging, making the two defenses exactly the same is a good move.

It's more it took me a few minutes to figure out what it was. Also, 1800 DP cost is huge. Although, if DP/HP tanking is pretty similar, that won't be so true, but considering we're seeing a definite trend in current v3 (which I'd be silly to assume wouldn't be the case in v4) of reducing tanking to reasonable numbers, I'm not a huge fan of seeing high base numbers in attack. Although I know that's probably just a mockup and not finalized stats. (Although, if the base defense numbers are also scaling up, then that's.. not a huge issue, is it?)

It seems to oversimplify it but I can't think of an in between right now.

But... WHY is it a bad thing to simplify it? Or how is it OVER-simplifying it? What real benefit is there in making people have three whole multiplication phases they HAVE to have every turn and cannot avoid? Instead of making people have to reduce the weapon by their pilot, unit, and special modifiers every turn, we can abstract that all away by just making those defenses literally give you HP, because that's what they're doing now.

Because I don't see the problem of having people have a few floating modifiers. The problem with defenses wasn't really huge when calculating one or two attacks, it just becomes annoying and unworkable in team battles. Although, if we only had floating modifiers that were say, like Guts and Potential, or SupportDefense+, that's fine too. I'd just like there to be more than HP - ( Attack - Defense) to resolve an attack phase. (or DP - (Accuracy - Dodge)).

Interjecting: Some of those move costs are quite high, and with a MUSTPACK, can effectively screw things over. Otherwise, it makes sense..

That system is still up for discussion, I should mention. And people are very much NOT discussing it, so...

Also, we cannot be balancing entire game systems around individual units. It would be more likely that something may happen to the Mudpack during the restatting.

Probably. I'm not really sure what I think about it.

So uhm.. Special skills like A-Class Jumper, Newtype, Spiritual Power, Ki Power? Do they get their own class, or is it an optional thing in the class build? Also, would we be looking at reduced skill slots since some are now built in?

As was stated, the new class designs are CONCEPTS. Each one embodies a generic build; such as your typical "I deal damage and dodge reasonably well", "I tank really well", "I'm just meant to sit in the back seat". The defining skills are remaining to provide choice for further customization.

As to the number of skill slots, that is yet to be determined.

I wasn't sure. That makes sense, though. (And yes, I realize they were concepts, but nothing was said about them.)

So some way of either penalizing the use of super-moves early on (a-la SDSC's Hissatsu tag.) which would be the simplest way of handling it but would potentially be awkward and wouldn't be able to cover everything quite as well as it does in its source material

There is actually something along these lines planned, but that design is still in earlier planning.

Errr. I don't think this is a hugely great idea. Yes, sure the ability to toss them out every turn makes battles quicker and prone to finisher spam, but requiring lower attacks will just drag them out.

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It's more it took me a few minutes to figure out what it was. Also, 1800 DP cost is huge. Although, if DP/HP tanking is pretty similar, that won't be so true, but considering we're seeing a definite trend in current v3 (which I'd be silly to assume wouldn't be the case in v4) of reducing tanking to reasonable numbers, I'm not a huge fan of seeing high base numbers in attack. Although I know that's probably just a mockup and not finalized stats. (Although, if the base defense numbers are also scaling up, then that's.. not a huge issue, is it?)

I... have a feeling that you straight out did not understand what was presented. So I'm going to try again.

Agi is gone. The ability for an individual weapon to be dodged will be presented the same way as for that weapon to be tanked, and the ability for a unit to AVOID damage will be presented the same way as the ability for that unit to TANK damage. 1800 DP Damage is not huge; it's like looking at a 1800 damage beam rifle. For all intents and purposes, A dodger and a tanker will be EXACTLY THE SAME, from the way the incoming attack is determined to the various tools available to do them to mitigate it. The current design of the damage tank class and the dodge tank class have some differences in the minute ways they do things, but the basic idea of how an attack is mitigated will be the same regardless of whether you dodge or tank. Which will finally make both mitigation strategies balanced against each other.

Yes, there will be a way to get DP Regen as a result of this change. We will either do that or eliminate HP Regen, but that choice is less likely.

Because I don't see the problem of having people have a few floating modifiers. The problem with defenses wasn't really huge when calculating one or two attacks, it just becomes annoying and unworkable in team battles. Although, if we only had floating modifiers that were say, like Guts and Potential, or SupportDefense+, that's fine too. I'd just like there to be more than HP - ( Attack - Defense) to resolve an attack phase. (or DP - (Accuracy - Dodge)).

I have to bring you back to the unquoted part of my response:

I mean, what's the difference between having 5000 HP and reducing a 10000 damage attack to 500 damage, or having 100000 HP and just eating the 10000 damage attack? You take the same amount of effective damage either way.

Please consider this comparison; what benefit does making someone have 2 guaranteed multiplications EACH ATTACK they receive give? This is a setup where you simplify the math, but get effectively the same result regardless.

Also, did you see the list of modifiers that were NOT just straight +HP? The intent of the system is that there will be no REQUIRED division in defense; if you don't want to deal with fancy things, then your defense turn is simple: You opt to take or dodge, and then you straight reduce your appropriate defense.

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I demand a test ...

because with the current explanation, i think i'm not quite the fan of it... or more like... only 40% of the concepts presented that makes me want to play it. obviously, the rotating series list thing is a total mood killer, i mean yes we can use anything we want in Arena thingy, but seriously i would prefer to get involved in the main game, instead of just bored to dead on waiting list and banging teh arena to fill out the time of being left out of the main game just because tehre's no series that contains a unit that we suits/capable/like/any-reason for us to join the main game. and although the new stats concepts seems nice and more balanced, i can see tanking type people would have some problem, but i'm still not sure if its true. so that's why i said this concepts only appeal to me by 40% of it.

i have thought of something but it seems just stuck in the tip of my tounge. so yeah... its not like i bitch or rant about this, but this is just what i thought about the concept.

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and although the new stats concepts seems nice and more balanced, i can see tanking type people would have some problem, but i'm still not sure if its true.

What kind of problem is it that you are seeing?

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I kinda drifted towards it in the lst sentence, ubt it sometimes takes me far more time than I'd like to get things. Regardless, your explanation clears up what I was thinking.

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Iono, dodging and tanking work exactly the same under this system, how are tank-types in trouble?

And who actually uses 80% of the series we have in the Hangar List? It seems like there are only a few series that people pick from, and if those are within the series that don't go out much, then there shouldn't be a problem. There's also still the Mechdev, which (in the NJU) seems to get a lot more shine than actual units.

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Why do you insist on talking about events when they were clearly stated to be exempt from the limitation?

Because I derped.

Anyway, I don't want to be cut out of whatever part of the SC uses the limitations just because I don't like any of the current series (though, this is technically my fault, not yours) or can't afford the units to keep in. That's all. (In any case, as long as you have at least one gundam series that isn't G in every cycle or whatever, I'll be fine on the first. The second... it depends on how many credits I get.)

The aim with the archetypes is to generally be "What you do in combat" rather than "What you're piloting". The exceptions are Subpilot (where you're in a backseat), and the working idea of Hero. The original idea of Hero was actually a jack of all trades offense pilot, but turned into the whole "I pilot one unit" idea. It might be possible to do both. It's still kind of something in progress.

I prefer that type over "I pilot one unit", to be honest.

About MUTSPAC:

I think the solution here is to balance it with how important terrains are. If terrains are the difference between guaranteed victory and guaranteed defeat, then the MUTSPAC is going to be incredible. If they're little more than minor annoyances to the side that doesn't benefit, then the MUTSPAC is going to be a weak unit.

The problem is that you can't just fiddle with the HP/DP/EN numbers to balance it, because terraforming doesn't do direct damage.

I believe that the same logic will apply to things like Beam Jammer and Beam Absorb, where your beam attacks (except [F]) become worthless, whether they do 10 damage, 10000 damage or 100000000 damage.

Edit: Editted for clarity, and because I remembered the existance of Beam Jammer

Edited by Alicia

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And who actually uses 80% of the series we have in the Hangar List? It seems like there are only a few series that people pick from, and if those are within the series that don't go out much, then there shouldn't be a problem. There's also still the Mechdev, which (in the NJU) seems to get a lot more shine than actual units.

That's actually one tertiary reason I kind of liked the rotation idea. It would give some lesser used things (both Hangar and Dev) a chance to get some spotlight, so Imban won't be TOTALLY wasting his time when he stats some crappy game no one's played or cares about.

Plus I don't think it's as bad as people are thinking. As an analogy, when NJU started you had limited unit and series to pick from, and people went out and found stuff to use, some of it that they might not have used otherwise.

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And who actually uses 80% of the series we have in the Hangar List? It seems like there are only a few series that people pick from, and if those are within the series that don't go out much, then there shouldn't be a problem. There's also still the Mechdev, which (in the NJU) seems to get a lot more shine than actual units.

That's actually one tertiary reason I kind of liked the rotation idea. It would give some lesser used things (both Hangar and Dev) a chance to get some spotlight, so Imban won't be TOTALLY wasting his time when he stats some crappy game no one's played or cares about.

Plus I don't think it's as bad as people are thinking. As an analogy, when NJU started you had limited unit and series to pick from, and people went out and found stuff to use, some of it that they might not have used otherwise.

As long as there are some series for everyone, this is fine.

Though, going back to "a few series that people pick from", on the one hand, if those are the series used, nothing changes. If not, people get left out because they possibly can't find things that they like.

OTOH, without NJU doing this, I'd never have discovered Matey Match's L Matey and MUTSPAC, which I find to be interesting units.

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Which, as Mecha pointed out, is a strong benefit of the series rotation. It's not meant to punish players who have favourites; on the contrary, it's meant to both ensure a tighter balance and introduce players to more robots they may have just ignored because of HOW MASSIVE the Hangar is.

Really, look at the way SRW does things. They don't always have the same series list, and what happens is that the random things they toss in get a surge of popularity as a result. Who would have ever looked at WHY ARE YOU SO BALDios or GodSigma if it wasn't for Z? Maybe the fact that people suddenly cared about Gaiking when it was in Alpha 2 caused them to make Legend of Daikyu-Maryu.

I intend for some slots for players to have a say on, but I actually think that mixing up what units players can use is certainly a great idea. It keeps things fresh because you always have a new selection, and gets you to use the various machines that people have statted for us that are NOT the big name series.

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sorry... is it possible you guys make a mock up of the character system, like what you did the with the proposed new system? I am trying to get a grasp of how this "pilot path" is going to work (and I am assuming it's like 4e, where you determine what kind of class you are, and then what kind of sub-role do you play (for instance, within Rogue or Fighter, there are different kinds of skill sets you get, which at times determine what kind of power you predominantly get)

As well, is there a way to make the stat for unit weapons better? I don't mind the Weapon Damage and Dodge Damage idea. It just looks weird when you have two different high value numbers, such as [+] Breast Fire (S)- 4800 damage, 2500 Accuracy, 25 EN/attack (this might just be that it's a new concept, so it looks weird from the start... And tbh, I have no idea how you would go about fixing this... not even [F] Throttle (M)- 2000 damage, 10 EN/attack [2000] would look any better...)

Edited by Akita

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Ok as an EXTREME ALPHA VERSION of an archetype, here's the Skirmisher.

I'm working off the idea that skills and spirit commands level on their own after you take them. So you pick a skill at level 1 and it automatically improves at levels X and Y. When you pick a Specialization choice, you're stuck with that path, though yes there will be some method of resetting a class.

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I intend for some slots for players to have a say on, but I actually think that mixing up what units players can use is certainly a great idea. It keeps things fresh because you always have a new selection, and gets you to use the various machines that people have statted for us that are NOT the big name series.

And lo, did most of my worries instantly vanish. The remaining one is being outvoted on every series I like, but that shouldn't happen. In the NJU series proposal voting threads, I usually got at least one through, and was generally pleased with most of the other votes, too.

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Ok as an EXTREME ALPHA VERSION of an archetype, here's the Skirmisher.

I'm working off the idea that skills and spirit commands level on their own after you take them. So you pick a skill at level 1 and it automatically improves at levels X and Y. When you pick a Specialization choice, you're stuck with that path, though yes there will be some method of resetting a class.

So, I have a question regarding the level up system interacting with this: Once you choose a thing from a specialization are you locked into it? (I.E. can you only take the specialization options from that choice)?

Edit: I am dum and shouldn't ask questions immediately after waking up.

Edited by Yuu Inohara

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